Most small agencies start the same way. We do great work, clients talk, and referrals roll in. It feels safe, even noble, to say we “don’t do marketing, it all comes from word of mouth.”

That works, until it does not.

In this post, we break down a candid conversation between agency owners Toby Cryns of The Mighty Mo and Kurt von Ahnen of Manana No Mas. We look at what actually keeps an agency healthy: lead generation that does not depend on the owner, sane ways to handle money stress, and how to make an agency worth selling someday.

We also get real about affiliate programs, sponsorships, “influencer” pressure, and the myth of passive income.

A Solid Week In Agency Land And The Big Question

Both agencies came into this discussion on a high note. New content shipped, a new website launched, and a fresh client project kicked off. Revenue was not spiking at year end, but it was steady. That consistent revenue felt better than a frantic scramble to close last‑minute deals.

Out of that momentum came a larger question:

How much of our week should we spend on:

• Sales conversations and proposals
• Marketing and content creation
• Being “the face” of the agency online

Underneath that question sits the real one many of us ask:

Are we supposed to act like influencers now just to keep our agencies alive?

The answer, at least from this conversation, is more practical than that.

LinkedIn As A Lead Engine, Not A Popularity Contest

For Toby, the answer is yes, we do need to show up publicly, but not as entertainers. The goal is leads, not likes.

The LinkedIn setup and real costs

Here is what serious LinkedIn work looks like in his agency:

• A paid LinkedIn Sales Navigator subscription
• A second paid tool that sits on top of Sales Navigator
• About 200 dollars every month in tool costs

On top of that, there is time:

• Bi‑weekly LinkedIn live events, with a plan to move to weekly
• Each event teaches something concrete, like how to use Google Search Console
• Roughly 5 hours a week of his own time, plus a half‑time staffer managing logistics

The mindset is simple. Social media is just one more channel for mining leads. It is not about chasing influence for its own sake.

The 10,000 connections story that turned into a sponsorship offer

Kurt shared a related LinkedIn story from a different angle.

He hit 10,000 connections. Right away, his inbox turned into a wall of spam. At the same time, he was paying for a LinkedIn tool to help him grow. Since he had already hit his goal, he decided to cancel.

During the exit call, the support rep started into the usual retention script. Kurt cut to the point and did three things:

1. He took the blame. He said, “It is not you, it is me. I set a goal, hit it, and I am done. The tool worked.”
2. He praised their work. He shared that he recommends them, talks about them on podcasts, and even built a course on growing LinkedIn without spamming people.
3. He made it clear there was no drama. He just wanted to cancel, not complain.

The team on the other end was stunned. They were used to friction, not unsolicited praise. Their response flipped from defense to curiosity.

They basically said, “You have done all this without us asking you to. We want to pay you.”

What started as a simple cancellation turned into a sponsorship conversation, all because he was already creating content around tools he genuinely used.

That leads to the next issue for agency owners.

Should Agencies Take Affiliate Deals And Sponsorships?

The ethics and practicality of affiliates and sponsorships were a big part of this conversation.

Toby’s hesitation: your name sticks to bad products

Toby has written many blog posts over the years recommending WordPress plugins and products he loved. Some of those tools were later acquired. After the sale, quality dropped, support lagged, and updates slowed.

His old endorsements stayed live. His name was still attached to tools he would no longer use.

Because of that, the idea of taking affiliate money or sponsorships gives him a gut reaction of “gross.” He never wants people to wonder if his recommendations are honest or just paid placements.

So he stays careful, especially on social platforms where it is already hard to know who to trust.

Kurt’s reality check: affiliates rarely pay like you think

Kurt came at it from a numbers angle. Over the years he has been an affiliate for several well‑known tools:

• Cloudways
• Bluehost
• Groundhogg
• LifterLMS

Despite recommending them often and placing links in many places, the commissions were tiny. He remembers one or two payments from Groundhogg and only a couple of LifterLMS affiliate payouts over about six years, even though he works directly with LifterLMS, appears on their shows, and uses it in projects.

That is telling. LifterLMS itself is a serious platform with a powerful free core plugin, paid add‑ons for payments (Stripe, PayPal, Authorize.Net), advanced quizzes, social learning, private content areas, and tight integrations with tools like Mailchimp and ConvertKit. Agencies can use it to build full training sites with memberships, continuing education, course cohorts, and detailed reporting.

If someone that close to the product only gets a handful of affiliate payouts, then the traditional affiliate model probably does not move the needle for most agencies.

Kurt’s conclusion: affiliate links on their own are not a strong revenue stream for agency owners.

When sponsorships feel fine, and when they feel wrong

Kurt does not see a conflict if a company he already uses deeply offers a sponsorship. For example, his permanent “stack” includes:

• Fluent tools
• WordPress
• LifterLMS

He uses these daily and rolls them into client solutions. If one of those vendors wanted to give him a monthly sponsorship to mention them on his podcast, that feels natural. He is already talking about them and building on top of them.

What feels wrong is promoting a shiny new “whizbang” product that he does not know and does not use, just because there is a check on the table.

A quick look at pros and cons

Here is how the trade‑off looks when we zoom out:

Potential benefit	Risk or downside
Extra cash from tools we already know and use	Our reputation tied to products we do not control
Easier content, since we talk about them anyway	Tools can get acquired and decline after we endorse them
Helpful for our audience when it fits our stack	Audience may distrust recommendations if everything feels paid
Sponsorship can offset real marketing costs	New “whizbang” tools can tempt us away from what works

Drawing a line: no affiliates in community spaces

Toby also runs a local WordPress user email list. The official policy is simple: no affiliate links, no sponsorship pitches.

People have tried to sneak in “here is my non‑affiliate link and here is my affiliate link if you want to support me.” He shuts it down every time.

For him, an email list that exists to help the community should not feel like one more ad channel. He knows he has his own agenda, but he tries to keep some spaces clean.

It is one more reminder to be cautious when we see influencers suddenly pushing the same new product in ways that do not even match real agency use cases. In many of those cases, they are simply getting paid.

Why Referrals And SEO Are Not Enough

Most small agencies share a common pattern:

• We get work through referrals
• We rank for a few keywords and land some SEO leads

Both channels matter, and both can last for years. But they are fragile.

Referrals depend on our personal energy and network. SEO depends on Google’s mood. As Toby pointed out, Google could change something and wipe a site’s traffic out overnight. That has already happened to many companies.

This is why he is treating LinkedIn as a third lead vertical. Here is what that looks like right now:

• Referrals keep coming in, but they will not cover everything forever
• SEO still brings in leads, but there is no guarantee it will keep working
• LinkedIn is a deliberate investment with tools, staff, and consistent events

On top of that, he now thinks about sale value. A buyer will always ask:

“Can this agency bring in leads without you?”

If the answer is no, the valuation drops.

Kurt pushed the point further. If we are a one‑person agency doing 10 projects a year and everything comes by referral, our “agency” behaves more like a personal job. When we step out, the pipeline dies.

That is harsh to hear, but it is honest. To build something that can outlive us, we need at least one marketing engine that does not depend on us working the room.

Getting Paid Without The Emotional Crash

Collecting money can feel harder than winning the work. Both agency owners shared how much emotional weight they carried around unpaid invoices.

When a simple bookkeeper email gets five invoices paid

Toby shared a story from when a client was past due on five invoices from earlier in the year. Automated reminders from the invoicing system had already gone out. Nothing had changed.

Rather than send another email himself, he asked his bookkeeper to step in. She sent a short, polite note that said she was reconciling the books and noticed several unpaid invoices.

The client replied almost immediately: “Sorry, checks in the mail.”

That was it. No drama, no fight, no explanation.

The difference was emotional distance. For the owner, every unpaid invoice can feel like a judgment. For a bookkeeper, it is just part of the job.

A quick phone call that fixed both the payment and the worry

Kurt’s story echoed the same pattern.

At Manana No Mas, most work is prepaid. If a client goes over their retainer, he sometimes agrees to bill in arrears as a courtesy. He delivers great work, sends the invoice, and expects quick payment.

Instead, nothing happens. The client even books more work while the old invoice sits unpaid. Days go by. Internally he starts asking:

• Did we mess something up?
• Are they unhappy?
• Are we about to lose this account?

Finally, he picks up the phone.

He reminds the client there is an unpaid invoice and mentions he cannot start the new work until it is resolved. The client says she thought that email was just a statement and apologizes. Right there on the call she pulls out a credit card, pays on the spot, and takes a moment to say how happy they are with the work.

Once again, all he had to do was ask.

We add so much imaginary pain to collections that we sometimes build our own failure before we try for success.

Letting a project manager be the buffer

Another way to lower stress is to let someone else handle tough conversations.

Toby talked about how helpful his project manager has been. When a client site was hacked, the team put in about 20 hours cleaning it up without a signed contract. That is risky territory.

Instead of Toby agonizing over how to bring it up, his project manager sent a direct, friendly email laying out the work done and asking how they could sort out payment.

The client came back with a simple proposal: pay the total in three equal monthly chunks. No anger, no pushback.

For the project manager, it was just another task. For the owner, it would have been a week of stress.

The Real Cost Of Stress And The Choice To Scale (Or Not)

Stress is not only emotional. It has direct financial impact for agency owners.

As Toby grew The Mighty Mo from two or three employees to about ten, his stress changed. When he was the one building every site, he worried about delivery quality. Now that he has developers, designers, and two project managers, he worries about whether projects are getting done when he is not involved.

He also still jumps into fires, like the hacked site example. Looking back, he knows he probably should have stayed out and let the team handle everything.

Kurt has taken a different path. After 18 years, he decided to pull back on agency hours to protect his health and sanity. He schedules:

• Time for mountain biking
• Regular gym visits
• Friday afternoons with the dog at the park

He has also turned down contracts that looked profitable on paper but would have been a nightmare to manage. He would rather keep the business healthy and his life enjoyable than chase every dollar.

Both approaches share one core idea: the business should not own us. We should own it.

Building An Agency That Someone Would Actually Buy

At some point, many of us think about what an exit might look like.

Why sellability and ease of operation are tied

There is a strange paradox in agency value. The more sellable our agency becomes, the easier it is for us to run. The less it depends on us, the more a buyer will pay.

Toby recently went through a serious acquisition process for The Mighty Mo. The buyer even put an offer on the table. In the end, it came out to roughly one year of his salary.

The problem was simple. Revenue was much higher than that, but a large portion of the value depended on him. The buyer would still need him around to run things.

Selling in that situation feels more like trading a business for unemployment, not a true exit.

Processes, not just client lists, create real value

Kurt looks at agencies through a process lens. A big client list feels impressive, but on its own it is not a strong asset. Buyers want systems.

He points to several kinds of processes that matter:

• How hosting is set up and managed
• How new projects are scoped, delegated, and tracked
• How invoices are created and followed up
• How meetings, storyboarding, and communication happen with clients

He compares this to the difference between a single burger joint and a McDonald’s. The small shop may make a better burger, but McDonald’s is worth more because every step is documented and repeatable.

Kurt saw this idea up close years ago at Don Chalmers Ford in New Mexico. The dealership was chasing the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award. To qualify, they had to document every process in extreme detail, from brewing coffee in the waiting room to inspecting fire extinguishers and handling accounting.

As an employee, it was painful. As a business owner looking back, he sees how those manuals increased the value of the dealership.

Inspired by that, he now records his own agency processes as internal courses on his site. When they bring on contractors, they assign those lessons to train people quickly. For a future buyer, those training assets are a clear sign of a real business, not just a freelance practice.

Clean recurring revenue makes buyers more confident

Toby mentioned a friend who tried to sell his hosting business. It was a real operation on a well‑known shared host, with dozens of clients.

That friend had one big thing going for him: the billing was clean. Contracts were clear. He could show exactly how much profit a buyer would make over the next year.

Even then, Toby was only comfortable offering about one year of that profit as a purchase price. Guides that promise “three times revenue” rarely line up with what actual buyers are willing to risk, unless the business looks more like a well‑run SaaS with stable, trackable subscriptions.

For anyone planning to sell someday, it helps to:

• Align renewal dates where possible
• Convert loose monthly agreements into clear annual contracts
• Keep recurring services separate from custom one‑off projects

Those steps make it much easier for a buyer to understand what they are getting.

“Passive” Income: What It Really Looks Like Inside An Agency

Both owners are skeptical of the way passive income is sold online.

Hosting and maintenance as semi‑passive revenue

At Manana No Mas, hosting and maintenance create a strong recurring base.

Here is how Kurt laid it out:

• Hosting and maintenance plans range from 55 to 79 dollars per month per site
• Around 50 sites are on those plans
• He budgets about 300 dollars per month to pay a team member to handle updates

That team member:

• Updates WordPress core and plugins
• Takes before‑and‑after screenshots
• Checks for obvious conflicts

On the other side, those 50 clients pay around 3,600 dollars per month combined.

Most accounts stay two to three years. Even when some move on to cheaper hosting or in‑house teams, the average life of each account provides a solid return on the original sales work.

From the owner’s view, hosting looks “passive” because he is not logging into sites every month. But it is really the delayed reward for earlier sales effort plus ongoing oversight.

Turning maintenance into an upsell engine

Toby’s team adds another layer. For years, they were undercharging for maintenance, not in monthly fees, but in missed opportunities.

Once a project manager stepped in and took a holistic view, they started doing something simple and powerful:

After each maintenance cycle, they send a short email that says, in essence, “We did your updates and noticed a few things.”

Those “few things” might be:

• A logo that looks dated
• A plugin that now needs the premium version for key features
• A contact form that is not delivering email

Every one of those findings creates a natural upsell. Most are small projects, but some turn into larger redesigns or new feature builds.

Since the project manager and team do the work, the owner benefits without adding more hours.

Why true passive income is a myth

Both owners pushed back on the fantasy that we can set something up once and collect checks forever.

Kurt pointed out how internet “gurus” preach passive income while still flooding our feeds with webinars and launches. If their systems were really hands‑off, would they need to hustle that hard every day?

Toby shared a friend’s experience running a very successful SaaS app. The revenue is recurring and healthy. The lifestyle is anything but passive. That founder spends full‑time hours on:

• Fixing bugs
• Replying to support tickets
• Handling feature requests
• Ongoing marketing

The lesson is simple. There is a spectrum of effort. Some income streams, like hosting, can operate with light oversight once they are set up. Others need daily involvement.

None of them truly run forever without care.

Bringing It All Together

Agency life is more than building nice sites and waiting for referrals. To keep our shops healthy and to make them worth anything in a future sale, we need to think about:

• A marketing engine that goes beyond personal referrals and fragile SEO
• Honest content that may attract sponsorships, but does not sell our integrity
• Simple systems for collections that remove emotional weight from getting paid
• Documented processes that turn a client list into a real, transferable asset
• Recurring “semi‑passive” revenue that rewards earlier effort without owning our calendar

The core theme is control. When we rely only on our own hustle and goodwill, the agency owns us. When we build systems, teams, and recurring income, we start to own the agency.

That is the difference between having a job and having a business.

How we move from one to the other is up to us, but we do not get there by accident.